Carmine Miranda & Robert Marler

Carmine Miranda & Robert Marler

Interview

Hello Carmine and Robert, thank you for joining us!  This record, “Shostakovich & Rachmaninoff, Sonatas for Cello & Piano” has been out for a few weeks now, how is the release going?  Where are you getting some traction that you didn’t think you’d get?

CARMINE: Hello Taylor! I am so grateful that the recording is getting a lot of traction in the United States but also internationally. Likewise, in our Nashville hometown, which speaks of our great, diverse, and supporting music community.

ROBERT: We were recently featured on the cover of Ritmo magazine, Spain’s largest music periodically and received a great review in Barcelona.  A couple of weeks ago Spotify featured a single from the recording, the third movement of the Rachmaninov Sonata, on their list of new releases.  We are also looking forward to the upcoming full-recording release scheduled for March 3.

You’re both masters of your instrument (you’re both Doctors of Musical Arts and teach at Belmont!) and are known for doing extensive research before diving into a piece, what was your biggest concern or fear going into this project?

CARMINE: We very consciously decided to try a different approach for this specific album (the Nashville approach), which was to record both instruments in separate rooms at the same time. Although this is a very common method for popular musical genres such as rock and country, it is a very unconventional and unorthodox recording approach for classical music. This process exposes every line and every technical decision for both instruments and basically presents no room to hide. This, however, was able to grant us greater control during mixing and mastering, which is what we were going after. I was concerned with the difficulty of the process, since we were relying on headphones to be able to match intonation, dynamics, tone, and musical cues.

ROBERT: The greatest challenge for me was to take two of the most difficult pieces in the standard repertory and do it justice. It was a challenge to play with the necessary virtuosity and musicianship to be able to record a refined, original interpretation of these two great masterworks. There was great personal value gained from the process of undertaking this project.

There are eight movements on the project, four from each composer – which one was the most difficult to track, and why (I’m sure it’s different for each of you, by the way)?

CARMINE: To me, all of the movements posed a different set of challenges to record. I am a big fan of close miking which helps to capture all the technical nuances on the cello. However, this recording technique also comes with tons difficulties, since it can also capture any miniscule variation in sound, intonation, and dynamics. The beginning of the first movement in the Rachmaninoff was particularly difficult since it is incredibly exposed. At the same time, the last movement also posed many challenges due to the movement’s length. The third movement of the Shostakovich also posed similar challenges, due to the very exposed melodic phrases and really soft dynamics, which required a very steady (almost surgical) right hand control.

ROBERT: The last movement of the Shostakovich features some really difficulty virtuosic passages that challenge every pianist. Tempo requirements and the passage work pushed my technique to the absolute limits. I was proud of the outcome.

It takes years and years of practice to be able to play the works of these masters, but, it’s a different thing when you’re going in to record it.  How long did you both rehearse for this project?

CARMINE: It really did take us countless hours of rehearsals (we really did loose count), as well as many hours of mixing and mastering for this album (almost an entire year). It was always helpful that Robert and I have a lot of similarities when it comes to interpretative viewpoints, and this helped to make the overall process incredibly fun for both of us.

ROBERT: The Rachmaninoff took years of practice. I was fortunate enough to play the work several times with other cellists. The reworking of the piece contributed considerably towards making it better each time.  Both Carmine and I rehearsed often to put together the ensemble requirements and nuances of both pieces. 

Knowing that these classics have been recorded many times (as all the great works have), what did you try to do differently?  What, in general, did you feel was missing from the recordings you must have referenced while researching this project?

CARMINE: I wanted to re-create the sound of a live performance through a controlled studio recording environment. For me, it was about capturing a recording of these works that provided an “updated” quality of sound and interpretations that were based on heavy research about both composers. Since these pieces are so well written for both instruments, they have become part of the standard repertoire for cellists and pianists alike. I am a firm believer that recording and performing renowned works like these, helps to keep our classical musical tradition alive and updated with new generations of young listeners.

ROBERT: For me it was the personal challenge to play and record at the appropriate level with these pieces.  There really was no reason to record them unless we could perform them at an extremely high level. In doing that, we were able to interpret our own phrasing, balancing, tempos, and general musicianship. No two recording are ever alike.

I read in another interview that you and your team (Producer and Mixer Alan Shacklock, Mastering Engineer Tommy Dorsey, Engineer Kyle Ginther and Associate Engineer Pat McMakin) spent months in the studio searching for the right mics and mix to get the most realistic live sound.  What did you learn about your playing during this process?  Did you have to alter your performance in any way because you weren’t getting the sounds you wanted? 

CARMINE: Surprisingly, we did not have to alter much from a technical or musical standpoint. This is due to very careful microphone choices that allowed us to be ourselves during the recording process.

ROBERT: They are all very fine professionals in the recording industry, enabling them to make great choices for any style of music. I trusted their vast experience to select the best setting for our project.

I’m assuming this was recorded digitally, was there any consideration to doing this recording to tape, instead of digital?

CARMINE: I am myself a big fan of tape and in many ways, I do miss the tape days. However, tape also comes with several compromises. The digital process allows for a higher quality of sound, which allows for the performance nuances to be clearly heard. The very extensive mixing and mastering work from Alan Shacklock and Tommy Dorsey, allowed for the record to retain a certain amount of warmth that people would associate with tape recordings.

ROBERT: I trusted the professionals that helped us with this project. I was mostly concerned about playing at my best level!

Those members of your production team all have incredible resumes.  How did they react to being invited on the project?  Were they nervous at all?  Did they have a lot of classical experience?  (I’m sure it must have been refreshing to work on a project that wasn’t bleeding with distorted guitars!)

CARMINE: It was an honor for us performers to closely collaborate with all these amazing legends of sound engineering and we are in fact very good friends. We didn’t get nervous, luckily! (only Robert, just kidding!)  Alan Shacklock is a legendary British producer and rock guitarist, who has produced recordings for Meatloaf, Sir Andrew Lloyd Webber, Roger Daltrey (The Who) and many more. At the same time, Alan is a classically trained guitarist and lutenist who performed with the baroque consort “The Cradle of Conceits”. The mastering engineer for the album is Tommy Dorsey, who remastered the Berliner Philharmoniker's 10-CD box set for Deutsche Grammophon. Tommy is a Belmont University alumnus and was a former student of Robert Marler. Kyle Ginther, the recording engineer, has also collaborated with prominent stars such as Taylor Swift and several prominent country music stars but also classical musicians.

ROBERT: It was exciting for all involved in the project. I had previously worked with Tommy Dorsey and Alan Shacklock. Tommy had also been a piano student of mine at Belmont many years earlier. I knew then that he had great ears for music. I’m extremely impressed with his involvement of remastering some of the recording of the Berlin Philharmonic, perhaps one of the best orchestras in the world.  Alan has had major successes in the recording industry, particularly in the pop field. I’m impressed with his interest in Classical music, which might be in part to the fact that he has Classical degree from the Royal Academy. He is a fine musician in all styles.

I’ll give you permission to brag….pick your favorite performance from the project, the one what you feel you really nailed, and tell us why you like it so much. 

CARMINE: In the second movement of the Shostakovich sonata, the composer writes very delicate natural harmonics in the cello score. These harmonics are meant to be arpeggiated back and forth in the fingerboard. I am particularly proud of how these arpeggios came across in the recording.

ROBERT: I am very fortunate to be the pianist for the Nashville Symphony. We make several recordings yearly that include some of the best Classical composers in the country.  I am proud to be on several of the recent Grammy winning recordings as well as many Grammy nominated works. I guess I am most recently proud of the recording of John Adams’ My Father Kew Charles Ives. It was recently nominated in the Grammy category as Outstanding Orchestra Performance

Think of the novice listener for this next question – and you’ll need to bring up the project on your sound system.  Pick your favorite track from the project, and your favorite passage (for example, the rising cello line against the descending piano at the 3:00 mark in Rachmaninoff’s Cello Sonata in G Minor) and tell the novice what they should try to interpret.  What detail should they listen for?  What passion, excitement or silence would compel them to want to hear that again?

CARMINE: Actually, this is a great spot in the first movement of the sonata and one of my favorites. As you already pointed out, the rising cello line against the descending piano line, almost makes it feel as if time stops momentarily. In this same spot, the cello line culminates in a really long note “D” which changes musical meaning against the constantly changing harmonic content in the piano. This is one of those musical places where we both needed to be conscious of each harmonic change, vibrato, and tonal choices to provide forward momentum.  

ROBERT: The Rachmaninoff’s third movement is very special. It is the most Romantic of all the tracks in this recording. The dialog between the cello and is the most of expressive of all the movements. It is pure expression! The theme is perhaps my favorite of all the Rachmaninov compositions. 

If you could place any one of these recordings in a popular TV show today – what show would it be?

CARMINE: Definitely the third movement of the Rachmaninoff Sonata. I think that this is one of the most beautifully written movements in the entire repertoire for cello and piano. I think that the first movement of the Shostakovich Sonata would go well in a show like “The Queen’s Gambit” or “The Americans”. 

ROBERT: The Shostakovich could make a great soundtrack for some of the HBO episodes of Succession! The music is catchy, quirky, and full of drama.

To the untrained ear, the novice (so to speak), so much of the music from Shostakovich and Rachmaninoff is going to sound dissonant and dark, a far cry from the tenderness of Mozart or Handel.  How do each of you explain (or sell, if you will) the music of these two masters to casual listeners who don’t have an appreciation for 19th and 20th Century Classical? 

CARMINE: Much like Jazz, the music of both composers and even more so for Shostakovich, is all about creating tension and resolution. Believe or not, a lot of classical musicians may argue that the style of writing for both composers fit the mold of the Romantic period, which gave birth to composers like Dvorak, Elgar, and Debussy. For Shostakovich, there is purpose with every dissonance, which he often associated as political remarks against the Russian regime of the time. For this reason and many more, I consider Shostakovich the most “metal” out of all composers during the 19th and 20th century.

ROBERT: I find the Rachmaninov to be beautiful and romantic. Many of the themes could make great background music to many movies and TV shows. The Shostakovich if full of energy and drama. The dissonance in this work just creates a tension that is released on the more consonant sections, adding to the drama. The music is rather tame in that regard.

Let’s try and convert some musicians and music lovers into being fans of Shostakovich and Rachmaninoff, shall we?  Who would each of you compare these composers to today – citing modern cultural examples.  For instance, Rachmaninoff is like Jimi Hendrix or Johnny Cash because he was composing in themes and tones that were unrivalled and even shocking in his time.  Shostakovich is like Rage Against the Machine.  Dissonant, political, controversial, but you wouldn’t have him if you didn’t have Rachmaninoff.  That type of thing….

CARMINE: I would compare Rachmaninoff to “Queen” due to the chromatisms, modulations and soaring melodies. I often compare the music of Shostakovich as the “Megadeath” of classical music due to the dissonances and darker tonal textures which demand for a more aggressive interpretation.

To the avid listener and fan of these masters, what should they be listening for when they hear this project?  What are the subtleties that stand out?

CARMINE: Musical textures are always present in these two works. At the same time, both pieces tell a story through music which involves a lot of technical precision from each instrument.

ROBERT: Listen to the moods and expression in both pieces. They are extremely varied. Listen to the virtuosity found in both instruments and the details of tone color and variety of articulation. What does the listener feel during each movement of both sonatas? The music has the ability to change the listener’s feelings!

Are there any public performances planned for this recording, are you taking this “on the road?”

CARMINE: After rigorous recording projects such as this one, I usually tend to explore a different set of repertoire pieces to avoid “burn out”. We play together very frequently and often advertise our performances in our websites and social media sites. We may include these works in our next set of performances.

I’ll give you permission to brag again, what’s been your favorite stage to perform on so far, and if you two could perform this record on any stage in the planet, where would that be? 

CARMINE: I have been blessed to have performed in several concert halls, however I have to say that the newly built Fisher Center for the Performing Arts at Belmont University has one of the best acoustics that I have experienced in my years of playing the cello. The concert hall can actually change the acoustical properties of the space in minutes, which makes it a modern marvel and incredible for music performances.

ROBERT: Of course, I brag about playing with the Nashville Symphony in Carnegie Hall. I am extremely fortunate to play almost weekly in the Schermerhorn Symphony Hall, so this would be a great place to perform these works!

Are either one of you involved in any musical projects that involve heavy improvisation?  As a musician who loves to improvise and could never master anything beyond the simpler works of Beethoven, Bach and Mozart, I’m curious to know how your thought process changes when you are in an improvisational setting, versus a rigorous setting such as classical. 

CARMINE: I often find that “commercial” and improvisatory performance of any kind requires a great understanding of harmony and form. These are two main principals that are also shared in classical music but particularly music from the baroque era, which involved a great deal of improvisation.

ROBERT: I unfortunately focus mostly on written out music. I admire those that improvise and often wish I had spent more time simply experimenting with improvisation. I do improvise in my practice, but seldom do it in public.

I’ve believed for years now that heavy metal musicians are probably the closest to classical musicians when it comes to technical skill, dexterity and feel.  Do you agree?  If not, what genre is closest to classical?

CARMINE: I absolutely and wholeheartedly agree! In fact, I always tell my friends that if Paganini would have been born today, he would be shredding away in a rock band. Bach would be producing electronic dance music, of course.

ROBERT: Alternative rock from a few years ago has some similarities with modern classical music composers. They often do new and creative techniques involving musical experimentation. 

How do you explain Classical music to your students and listeners?  In reviewing music, I always tell the listener to think about the song as a house.  The intro is like the front porch, the verse is like a hallway or the family room you walk into – and the chorus is typically the big room where everyone meets, perhaps the dining room or the kitchen.  I find that that analogy works well for country, rock, pop and most standards from the Great American Songbook.  Do you think that same analogy works for classical? 

CARMINE: Absolutely! I am a firm believer that great music writing transcends genres. Any great song or composition is built on a “strong foundation” and “solid structure” no matter the historical period. Music has always reflected humanity’s inner emotions, and this may be expressed in many different ways.

ROBERT: I think Classical music is inclusive of any great music. There has always been an interchange of elements in most creative genres of music. Examples include, of course the Beatles with the Bach trumpet, or Elvis Costello and his String quartet recording, and many more.

We all have “guilty pleasures” when it comes to music, who are yours?  Who are some artists that you absolutely love that are way outside the genre of classical? 

CARMINE: Too many to list: Toto, Styx, Queen, Yngwie Malmsteen, Steve Vai, Guns and Roses, The Darkness, Daft Punk, Justice, Avicii, Breakbot, Lizzo, Dolly Parton, Django Reinhardt, Miles Davis and many more. I grew up listening to a wide variety of genres and artists. I often find inspiration from artists outside of the classical realm, which have greatly contributed towards my interpretative taste.

ROBERT: I find myself listening to anything that attracts my attention. However, it seldom includes top 10.  There are so many great artists and entertainers these days that I am often surprised and rewarded by simply surfing through internet radio stations.

Everyone knows that Nashville is Music City (thank you, Queen Victoria for the title), but what most people don’t know is just how big the Classical music scene is here.  For tourists coming to town, where should they go to hear great classical music?

CARMINE: Nashville has indeed a wonderful and vibrant classical music community. We have one of the greatest symphonies in the United States and I strongly urge your readers to support our symphony concerts. At the same time, we have a wonderful classical music program at Belmont University, where I often get to collaborate with some of the best musicians and colleagues in the United States. I also urge your readers to attend our Belmont faculty performance series and student concerts. They are almost always free of charge, and your readers may hear Robert or myself perform from time to time along with other great musicians.

You’ve both had amazing careers – world class stages and studios, awards, collaborations with the biggest names in music (in multiple genres) – what would each of you like to accomplish before your time is up?  Who would you like to work with?

CARMINE: I would love to be able to transcend musical genres with the cello, not only limited to classical music. I am a big 80’s rock fanatic and especially an even bigger film scoring geek, so I would love to be able to collaborate with a composer like Howard Shore, Michael Giacchino or Alan Menken.

ROBERT: One of the great benefits in being the principal keyboardist of the Nashville symphony is that I get to perform with many of the best musicians in the country. I hope to continue doing this for a while as well recording and performing as often as possible solo and chamber music.

Last question, and it’s quite controversial, give me your best recommendation for a restaurant in Nashville that does NOT include Hot Chicken.  Go!

CARMINE: For breakfast, definitely “Proper Bagel” in Belmont Boulevard. It has a place reserved in my heart since they have a sandwich named “The Carmine” in their menu. For lunch, “Pinewood Social Club” in downtown. For dinner, “McNamara’s Irish Pub” in Donelson, since they have great food and live music in the evenings. 

ROBERT: Char and Green Hills Grill.  Great food, great service, excellent local restaurants.

Thank you both for joining us, and congratulations on a beautiful project!